When I was working in a small Midwestern town, I went to see the local high school’s production of The Music Man because I am a fan of musicals and a supporter of high school young people. It was easily the worst production of anything that I had ever seen. As I got up to slink off when they had mercifully concluded, I heard thunderous applause louder than one would hear on Broadway. I had an epiphany then, realizing that they either didn’t know or didn’t care how bad it was, that the applause was for Chaz and Morgan and everyone who lost sleep over the production, and they didn’t give a rat’s ass what I thought, and good for them
Truly disappointed. Never knew GK was a ‘draft dodger’. Unfortunately he sounds like he celebrates his decision. ‘Didn’t go, was never punished and was very successful.’ Lost all respect for you. Some things are better left unsaid.
I too had no idea, either way, of GK’s “service” but I too believe that LBJ’s and later Nixon/Kissinger’s stance is unsupportable by history itself.
Especially given “our” aka Wall Street’s full throated support for the economic development of both Vietnam and (once Red) China. Nike to Restoration Hardware to Apple.
My Honor Flight with 3 Veteran Cousins is next Spring.
I supported a 6 Mo. younger Cousin and a 5 year younger brother and their Conscientious Objector choice by mail to my Dad [a WWII Purple Heart Vet hospitalized twice!], while I was aboard ship serving in the Gulf of Tonkin, Aircraft Carriers. Because of the "Intelligence" areas I worked within, the Captain, Flag Officers, etc., and it all being a game to them!
However, both of them Served in their C.O. status doing Hospital work. My younger brother & and another between us (after he was discharged from the Air Force) both working at Craig Rehabilitation Hospital in the Denver area.
Obviously, GK was/is just a disrespectful unlawful Draft Dodger!
GK was honest and true and . . . brave for saying this now. My mother wanted my brother to go to jail rather than Vietnam. My boyfriend and his friends evaded the draft with all sorts of reasons: graduate school, marriage, medical technicalities (think bone spurs). Said they were gay. Or acted crazy. We treated the kids who served terribly when they came home. But they were used. It was the greatest divide in this country. Tore families apart. Yes, like today!!!
In a different recent GK item, he mentions the draft dodging in a different context and
mentions other Veterans to who he confessed. That particular article went a little deeper
than this one, but doesn't change the essential dodge of the story. The upfront admission to his act and public sharing sheds some light that can make a difference, instead of it never having been shared at all.
As a Vietnam vet, I think you should have been silent. Do you think I am a sap for going there? You are not funny. While I agree that the war was wrong, most of us who served were not as lucky as you to get out of serving. To say I am disappointed is an understatement . You dishonor me and many of my fellow servicemen.
I agree Jack, is he trying to be humorous about his draft dodging past. I going to unsubscribe from his blog. Good men served and suffered due to that patriotism and honor. I find no honor in this man. I also agree, he's not funny.
I don’t see much patriotism and honor in allowing yourself to be sent off to kill people with whom you really have no argument just because you felt you had no choice. How many were volunteers and how many were draftees?
That said, I do not disrespect those who served, and I do not think GK does either.
You have the right to believe or think what you may. It's a federal law to respond and manage your legal obligation to the local draft board or pay the penalty. Period. This obligation and the obeying and giving one time and talents to military service which keeps this country free and great.
I respectfully disagree with you, Jack. I thank you for your service. However, that does not mean I need to thank the body man who repairs the damage done to my vehicle due to a faulty part installed by an auto manufacturer that was defective. That the subsequent acccident caused by this part could have killed me, a loved one, or someone else would most likely lead to catastrophic consequences for all concerned. Is not rage or, the very least an enlightened commentary, about that system that created that part appropriate and necessary? Silence invites acceptance and, even worse, complacency.
gloria et paria mori... So wrote the Roman poet Horace 2100 years ago. The poisonous irony still rings bitterly in our consciousness today. Populism and nationalism have done then and do now more to erase from our souls one's direction "home".
My husband is a Vietnam vet. You dishonor him by bragging about getting out of serving by just failing to show up. He didn’t want to go either, but he did, as did many of his fellow Vietnam soldiers did. You did yourself no favors. I have been a loyal reader of your letters for a long time. I’m done!
It took courage to write about your Viet Nam experience, as you know you will get tons of flak. Actually there was a boisterous song about that war. " Well come on all of you big strong men, Uncle Sam needs your help again,
He got himself in a terrible jam, way down yonder in Vietnam,
put down your books and pick up a gun, we're gunna have a whole lotta fun." - Country Joe.
Thank you Garrison, I can appreciate what you say about that war. The Canadian border was tempting to me in 1962 when I enlisted and I was worried about Vietnam until I was discharged in November of 1965. I was sure that our country should not be there, but knew there was no way out if my unit was sent there.
I first heard a mild sense of anger, then a bit of guilt then stupidity of war, and all justified in my thinking. The Iraq-Iran war, how dumb was that? 20 years of what? Yes, they had it coming after the September 11th, 2001 attack in New York City. But 20 long years, for what? What is the reward? What are the consequences? PTSD, ABC, XYZ, name them off and know humans living, almost living in this country today suffer and those around them are suffering each and every minute of each and every day. For what? And now the middle east. For what? rr
With all due courtesy in response to your words, "The Iraq-Iran war, how dumb was that? 20 years of what? Yes, they had it coming after the September 11th, 2001 attack in New York City," it needs pointing out that neither the Iraqis nor the Iranians were involved in the attacks of 911. Saudi Arabia was. Saudi Arabia has done quite a few things that one might have thought were anti-American, but.....well......there's all that oil......and so very much money.....
For all of the anti-American stuff, America has never attacked Saudi Arabia, but instead America's poobahs go on "state visits" to "the king," and in fact, some very, very greedy Americans are now playing corporate-golf games with them, and the former so-called "president" now called "the defendant" got all cozy with them, and his son-in-law and daughter have profited mightily from dancing with the Saudis.
Further thoughts to your words, "But 20 long years, for what?" might come the reminder of how very, very, very wealthy that long, horrific invasion and occupation made many Americans of the corporate bent. The cost to lives and the loss of American "treasure" (trillions of dollars!) and the "normalization" of corruption are among the abominations of that evil folly - and it hardly even gets a mention anymore.
"It’s a great country, folks. But what strange times." Well said, Sir. Well said.
I think that Billy Joel wrote the perfect song for the Vietnam war in "Goodnight Saigon."
Vietnam was America's first war that we could watch live in our living rooms, eating our TV dinners on TV trays if we wanted to while we watched our sons alight from Huey helicopters, a little Vietnamese man shot in the head at point blank range, the .32 caliber snub-nosed pistol touching the man's temple before the crack of the gun and the dead man dropped back down on his ass in the middle of a street, a little naked Vietnamese girl running away from her burning village behind her with her mouth agape in horror. Now just like in Orwell's 1984, the war is eternal always going on somewhere, and unless one of our loved ones are fighting or get killed . . . we don't really care anymore. Do we? https://youtu.be/ghllgDOV8uA?feature=shared
As for musical reference regarding war and chaos, I personally enjoy Marvin Gaye's "What's Going on/Mercy Mercy Me. "--"War is not the answer, only love can conquer hate". Seems like a quaint approach but could work if practiced.
I Didn't Raise My Boy to Be a Soldier; Bob Dylan: God on our Side; Pete Seeger: Where have all the flowers gone and Knee/Waist/Neck Deep in the Big Muddy, and the Big Fool Says to Push on.
It was a tragic time. I didn’t “win” the lottery, and far that I am grateful. I don’t know what I would have done is my number had come up. I do not disrespect those whose number did and who did serve I honor those who died.
Unfortunately, we did not learn from that experience, and history repeats the tragedy
When I was working in a small Midwestern town, I went to see the local high school’s production of The Music Man because I am a fan of musicals and a supporter of high school young people. It was easily the worst production of anything that I had ever seen. As I got up to slink off when they had mercifully concluded, I heard thunderous applause louder than one would hear on Broadway. I had an epiphany then, realizing that they either didn’t know or didn’t care how bad it was, that the applause was for Chaz and Morgan and everyone who lost sleep over the production, and they didn’t give a rat’s ass what I thought, and good for them
As some of the English citizens said of our buildup before D Day:
The G Is are over paid, over sexed, and over here!
Thanks for sharing your experience. Those were tough times.
Truly disappointed. Never knew GK was a ‘draft dodger’. Unfortunately he sounds like he celebrates his decision. ‘Didn’t go, was never punished and was very successful.’ Lost all respect for you. Some things are better left unsaid.
I too had no idea, either way, of GK’s “service” but I too believe that LBJ’s and later Nixon/Kissinger’s stance is unsupportable by history itself.
Especially given “our” aka Wall Street’s full throated support for the economic development of both Vietnam and (once Red) China. Nike to Restoration Hardware to Apple.
My Honor Flight with 3 Veteran Cousins is next Spring.
I supported a 6 Mo. younger Cousin and a 5 year younger brother and their Conscientious Objector choice by mail to my Dad [a WWII Purple Heart Vet hospitalized twice!], while I was aboard ship serving in the Gulf of Tonkin, Aircraft Carriers. Because of the "Intelligence" areas I worked within, the Captain, Flag Officers, etc., and it all being a game to them!
However, both of them Served in their C.O. status doing Hospital work. My younger brother & and another between us (after he was discharged from the Air Force) both working at Craig Rehabilitation Hospital in the Denver area.
Obviously, GK was/is just a disrespectful unlawful Draft Dodger!
It was a wretched dishonorable war and you should be disappointed by the dishonest politicians whopromoted it, even knowing it had no good purpose.
GK was honest and true and . . . brave for saying this now. My mother wanted my brother to go to jail rather than Vietnam. My boyfriend and his friends evaded the draft with all sorts of reasons: graduate school, marriage, medical technicalities (think bone spurs). Said they were gay. Or acted crazy. We treated the kids who served terribly when they came home. But they were used. It was the greatest divide in this country. Tore families apart. Yes, like today!!!
In a different recent GK item, he mentions the draft dodging in a different context and
mentions other Veterans to who he confessed. That particular article went a little deeper
than this one, but doesn't change the essential dodge of the story. The upfront admission to his act and public sharing sheds some light that can make a difference, instead of it never having been shared at all.
As a Vietnam vet, I think you should have been silent. Do you think I am a sap for going there? You are not funny. While I agree that the war was wrong, most of us who served were not as lucky as you to get out of serving. To say I am disappointed is an understatement . You dishonor me and many of my fellow servicemen.
I agree Jack, is he trying to be humorous about his draft dodging past. I going to unsubscribe from his blog. Good men served and suffered due to that patriotism and honor. I find no honor in this man. I also agree, he's not funny.
I don’t see much patriotism and honor in allowing yourself to be sent off to kill people with whom you really have no argument just because you felt you had no choice. How many were volunteers and how many were draftees?
That said, I do not disrespect those who served, and I do not think GK does either.
You have the right to believe or think what you may. It's a federal law to respond and manage your legal obligation to the local draft board or pay the penalty. Period. This obligation and the obeying and giving one time and talents to military service which keeps this country free and great.
Welcome home Jack. Thank you for your service.
Sometimes honor and patriotism require disobeying federal laws. Just sayin’.
I respectfully disagree with you, Jack. I thank you for your service. However, that does not mean I need to thank the body man who repairs the damage done to my vehicle due to a faulty part installed by an auto manufacturer that was defective. That the subsequent acccident caused by this part could have killed me, a loved one, or someone else would most likely lead to catastrophic consequences for all concerned. Is not rage or, the very least an enlightened commentary, about that system that created that part appropriate and necessary? Silence invites acceptance and, even worse, complacency.
gloria et paria mori... So wrote the Roman poet Horace 2100 years ago. The poisonous irony still rings bitterly in our consciousness today. Populism and nationalism have done then and do now more to erase from our souls one's direction "home".
My husband is a Vietnam vet. You dishonor him by bragging about getting out of serving by just failing to show up. He didn’t want to go either, but he did, as did many of his fellow Vietnam soldiers did. You did yourself no favors. I have been a loyal reader of your letters for a long time. I’m done!
It isn't bragging, it's more like confession. Anyway, it's the truth.
It took courage to write about your Viet Nam experience, as you know you will get tons of flak. Actually there was a boisterous song about that war. " Well come on all of you big strong men, Uncle Sam needs your help again,
He got himself in a terrible jam, way down yonder in Vietnam,
put down your books and pick up a gun, we're gunna have a whole lotta fun." - Country Joe.
Thank you Garrison, I can appreciate what you say about that war. The Canadian border was tempting to me in 1962 when I enlisted and I was worried about Vietnam until I was discharged in November of 1965. I was sure that our country should not be there, but knew there was no way out if my unit was sent there.
I first heard a mild sense of anger, then a bit of guilt then stupidity of war, and all justified in my thinking. The Iraq-Iran war, how dumb was that? 20 years of what? Yes, they had it coming after the September 11th, 2001 attack in New York City. But 20 long years, for what? What is the reward? What are the consequences? PTSD, ABC, XYZ, name them off and know humans living, almost living in this country today suffer and those around them are suffering each and every minute of each and every day. For what? And now the middle east. For what? rr
With all due courtesy in response to your words, "The Iraq-Iran war, how dumb was that? 20 years of what? Yes, they had it coming after the September 11th, 2001 attack in New York City," it needs pointing out that neither the Iraqis nor the Iranians were involved in the attacks of 911. Saudi Arabia was. Saudi Arabia has done quite a few things that one might have thought were anti-American, but.....well......there's all that oil......and so very much money.....
For all of the anti-American stuff, America has never attacked Saudi Arabia, but instead America's poobahs go on "state visits" to "the king," and in fact, some very, very greedy Americans are now playing corporate-golf games with them, and the former so-called "president" now called "the defendant" got all cozy with them, and his son-in-law and daughter have profited mightily from dancing with the Saudis.
Further thoughts to your words, "But 20 long years, for what?" might come the reminder of how very, very, very wealthy that long, horrific invasion and occupation made many Americans of the corporate bent. The cost to lives and the loss of American "treasure" (trillions of dollars!) and the "normalization" of corruption are among the abominations of that evil folly - and it hardly even gets a mention anymore.
Thanks Annie, I'll stay with my words for they address the very big picture, for me.
"It’s a great country, folks. But what strange times." Well said, Sir. Well said.
I think that Billy Joel wrote the perfect song for the Vietnam war in "Goodnight Saigon."
Vietnam was America's first war that we could watch live in our living rooms, eating our TV dinners on TV trays if we wanted to while we watched our sons alight from Huey helicopters, a little Vietnamese man shot in the head at point blank range, the .32 caliber snub-nosed pistol touching the man's temple before the crack of the gun and the dead man dropped back down on his ass in the middle of a street, a little naked Vietnamese girl running away from her burning village behind her with her mouth agape in horror. Now just like in Orwell's 1984, the war is eternal always going on somewhere, and unless one of our loved ones are fighting or get killed . . . we don't really care anymore. Do we? https://youtu.be/ghllgDOV8uA?feature=shared
Thank you. I am grateful to live in a country where you can express sad truths and not be crucified for it.
I’m glad, Garrison. You did the right thing
Two thoughts come to my mind-
1) Hindsight is always 20/20
2) History seems doomed to repeat itself.
As for musical reference regarding war and chaos, I personally enjoy Marvin Gaye's "What's Going on/Mercy Mercy Me. "--"War is not the answer, only love can conquer hate". Seems like a quaint approach but could work if practiced.
I Didn't Raise My Boy to Be a Soldier; Bob Dylan: God on our Side; Pete Seeger: Where have all the flowers gone and Knee/Waist/Neck Deep in the Big Muddy, and the Big Fool Says to Push on.
Those are all excellent suggestions.
"War, what is it good for, absolutely thing, listen to me. War..." =
Perfect.
"War, huh. What is it good for. Good God, y'all. Say it again. War, huh, what is it good for. Absolutely nothing...."
(I think the exceptions to that are the American Civil War and WWII. Some wars become necessary, at least until humans evolve differently.)
It was a tragic time. I didn’t “win” the lottery, and far that I am grateful. I don’t know what I would have done is my number had come up. I do not disrespect those whose number did and who did serve I honor those who died.
Unfortunately, we did not learn from that experience, and history repeats the tragedy