So funny sir. Reminds me of another sectarian quip of yours (I often repeat to great effect) of the people who tried to drive a Unitarian family from their neighborhood by burning a question mark on their front lawn.
I was raised in a lily white Northern Illinois Lutheran Church and the hypocrisy I had observed by the time of my Confirmation was astounding. That experience plus observations gleaned from a 73 y/o life have only cemented my acceptance of atheism. If I ever choose to "believe" again I will seek out a Black Church because they actually seem to enjoy their celebration of God and Jesus.
Like several Catholics I know, who left the Catholic Church for a number of reasons and have found homes in Lutheran Churches (the services, per Martin's wishes, are very similar), you should try out going to a Lutheran Church. Oh, several Lutheran Churches, along with other Protestants, are RIC Churches -- Reconciled in Christ -- and we accept and welcome anyone, regardless of color, creed, gender, or political persuasion.
I have no interest in or feel a need for any religion. I quit going to church in 1968 because they stopped having Latin and that was the only thing I liked about it. I believe in the Big Bang and the Laws of Physics. I do enjoy Gospel music and choral Latin masses – my husband has sung in many of them and also likes them, so I have been to lots of live performances.
I would suggest a vacation in Fredricksburg, TX, where the Lutheran church services are in both Spanish and Texas-German, a favorite food at the county fair is sausage tacos and the sound track is a blend of polka-band with mariachi.
I'm proud and happy that I've been a life long Lutheran. Some Sunday you should attend the Lutheran church on the upper West Side of NYC as I think you're a secret Lutheran. Thanks for all the years of laughter & good thoughts and look forward attending your NYC show again.
You've helped me understand why my boyfriend's midwest Lutheran parents never seemed to warm up to me (from my perspective). Being from the Jewish culture, I had hoped to be greeted with big hugs--never happened. And when he introduced me to his parents saying I was a poet, his Dad had a most quizzical look on his face. We never did warm up to each other. Sad because I never stopped trying and was always disappointed. I did attend Sunday services with the family and especially the part at the end of the service where we greeted our neighbors all around us in the pews--of course my boyfriend would save his kiss for me and I loved that!
Yes, I believe you're correct, conservative. Their church was located in Illinois farmland. However, the Lutheran church I attended with that boyfriend in PA was and still is quite liberal, totally different population. 😁
A wise man, perhaps a geographer, noted long ago that Norwegian Lutherans were inexplicably attracted to the flat lands of extinct glacial lake bed known today as the Red River Valley. I was born and raised there and spent most Sunday mornings for the first 18 years of my life at Ringsaker Church, just a mile and 1/2 east of our farm. The church closed 22 years ago (you can read about it in Pat Brown’s article in The NY Times!), but until recently the remaining faithful kept it in good condition. Even kept the power on. But soon its coming down to be replaced by a small fiberglass replica.
Through the wonders of technology, I captured a reasonably good 3-D scan of the interior, upstairs and down, so the nostalgic or curious can tour. Since I am told that nothing ever really disappears from the internet, the old church has achieved something like immortality. I like to imagine that one day technology might a place children’s choir in front of a similarly virtual congregation to once again sing “Jeg er sa glad hver julekveld’’. Or perhaps Garrison could coax the assembled in singing a few hymns.
Our AI overlords may someday wonder what it was all about and why. Perhaps they will acquire a taste for cultured Lutefisk to virtually enjoy it with their fellow AI in the basement, as four generations of Norwegian Lutherans did once upon a time.
Lovely pictures. I don't need a picture of the Grace & Truth Gospel Hall of my childhood in Minneapolis because it is permanently fixed in my mind, the seats all facing the middle and where everyone sat.
In my minds eye I can still imagine where all the families sat from my vantage point in the third row to the right, near the piano. Everyone occupied the same pews every week. By my childhood most husbands sat with their families, but in a vestige of days past when men sat apart from wives and children, back behind me were a couple of rows occupied by the solitary old bulls with a few of the young bucks sitting behind them.
Interesting.. I didn't know the old Norwegians would've divided up like that. It seems rather severe. Where might this teaching have come from? Certainly not from Luther.
I can’t say for sure why the old settlers did that, but I recall when my father migrated from sitting with the old bulls towards the 3rd pew next to my mother. It may have just occurred naturally as my older siblings moved away, leaving more space in the third pew.
My family immigrated to a small community in Eastern Washington, in 1907, about 4 years after the first settlers had founded a Lutheran church (Hauge Synod) for the Norwegian settlers there. (Services were in Norwegian until the mid-20's). My mother was born 2 years after my grandparents immigrated, and at that time, the men sat on one side of the church, with the women on the other. The story goes that my grandmother had her hands full with Mom and her brother (two years older), so she asked my grandfather to move across the aisle and help her. Others soon followed suit, and the tradition of gender-based seating was thankfully put to rest.
This congregation got a new pastor in 1928, who was the first they had who was not born in Norway. He had attended St. Olaf College, where he took Norwegian, and then attended the Hauge Synod's Red Wing Seminary. One of the early members of the congregation told me that he gave his first sermon in Norwegian, and as the parishioners were exiting after the service, he asked one of the congregation's founders, "How was it?" He replied, "Well, I've heard better." That was the last sermon given in Norwegian in that congregation.
Of course many the descendants of the founders are strong advocates of "English only" in the US, despite the fact that their grandparents or great-grandparents spent 25 years in that congregation (and for many, at least 20 years in Minnesota before moving to Washington) without ever attending a church service that wasn't in Norwegian.
LOL, a young pastor should have known better than to ask that question!
It would be interesting to see how the decision was made to switch to English. I’m pretty sure the minutes from all those early congregational meetings are still archived somewhere. (My aunt was the Secretary for some 50 years!). Further research is merited!
I grew up in the Red River Valley area too, Kim and still live here. Although I wasn't raised Lutheran, I "became" one when I married because my husband's family was Lutheran - the "strict" kind (Missouri Synod) and the church wouldn't marry us unless we were both members. The family church is still standing, and yes, I still remember the interior mostly by where within the various families - seems like there were about 5-6 main branches with various subsidiaries - sat.
If you immerse yourself in the 3D image by following the white circles, you can stand behind the pulpit and look out from the same perspective as Pastors Stomme, Carlson and Anderson, or as I had as I was obliged to read Luke 2:1-20 near the conclusion of the annual Sunday School Christmas program. In return for services rendered, I got a paper back containing an apple, some chocolate covered candies, peanuts and that odd, glass-hard ribbon candy. At the time it seemed like fair compensation.
My first wife’s family was from the same rural community but some how her parents ended up in a Missouri Synod church, which must have been unusually progressive because the pastor allowed us to marry in their church, but I remember them being very fussy about which songs could be sung at the wedding.
Yeah, there’s a lot of shared culture growing up Lutheran. And you’re right: it was all white. I can’t imagine what they’d do to lure in non-whites. The music probably wouldn’t. The ministerial ruminations serving as sermons are not, I think, as impactful as a speaker who delves into the Bible, which most of the congregation never does. They’re good people, you know, but Pentecost to them is just another day on the annual calendar.
As a life-long Lutheran, I have to agree with much of what you have written. The church I grew up in was very much as you described. However my Manhattan Lutheran church is far removed from your description. We do have black members. We have a gay pastor (our second). We use incense and are probably more "Roman" than the Catholic churches in Minnesota. And, for all I know, some of our members may well have been Episcopalians. As you say, God loves us all.
GK, I guess I am more Lutheran than I thought. D
So funny sir. Reminds me of another sectarian quip of yours (I often repeat to great effect) of the people who tried to drive a Unitarian family from their neighborhood by burning a question mark on their front lawn.
Best laugh of my day! Thanks!
I was raised in a lily white Northern Illinois Lutheran Church and the hypocrisy I had observed by the time of my Confirmation was astounding. That experience plus observations gleaned from a 73 y/o life have only cemented my acceptance of atheism. If I ever choose to "believe" again I will seek out a Black Church because they actually seem to enjoy their celebration of God and Jesus.
I had a very similar experience and the same outcome, having been raised as a Catholic in lily white Concord, MA.
Like several Catholics I know, who left the Catholic Church for a number of reasons and have found homes in Lutheran Churches (the services, per Martin's wishes, are very similar), you should try out going to a Lutheran Church. Oh, several Lutheran Churches, along with other Protestants, are RIC Churches -- Reconciled in Christ -- and we accept and welcome anyone, regardless of color, creed, gender, or political persuasion.
I have no interest in or feel a need for any religion. I quit going to church in 1968 because they stopped having Latin and that was the only thing I liked about it. I believe in the Big Bang and the Laws of Physics. I do enjoy Gospel music and choral Latin masses – my husband has sung in many of them and also likes them, so I have been to lots of live performances.
Sorry your life was so hard.
Concord has changed a lot since I moved away 51 years ago. My three siblings still live there, but their children can't afford to.
https://issuu.com/discoverconcordma/docs/discover_concord_spring_2023?fbclid=IwAR0VV5vpKxKQGFfEWqYJIAbdylPv4KdRWts-5vhM74IaomKKEc1GQZ2Vo1E
I would suggest a vacation in Fredricksburg, TX, where the Lutheran church services are in both Spanish and Texas-German, a favorite food at the county fair is sausage tacos and the sound track is a blend of polka-band with mariachi.
That sounds awesome!
I'm proud and happy that I've been a life long Lutheran. Some Sunday you should attend the Lutheran church on the upper West Side of NYC as I think you're a secret Lutheran. Thanks for all the years of laughter & good thoughts and look forward attending your NYC show again.
Proud to be a Lutheran and a member of a diverse parish.
Wonderful writing today .
The best line was : " I'm not putting down Lutherans " . Haha .
You've helped me understand why my boyfriend's midwest Lutheran parents never seemed to warm up to me (from my perspective). Being from the Jewish culture, I had hoped to be greeted with big hugs--never happened. And when he introduced me to his parents saying I was a poet, his Dad had a most quizzical look on his face. We never did warm up to each other. Sad because I never stopped trying and was always disappointed. I did attend Sunday services with the family and especially the part at the end of the service where we greeted our neighbors all around us in the pews--of course my boyfriend would save his kiss for me and I loved that!
Sorry for your in-law's reticence. Might have been a conservative Lutheran church -- Missouri or Wisconsin Synod.
Yes, I believe you're correct, conservative. Their church was located in Illinois farmland. However, the Lutheran church I attended with that boyfriend in PA was and still is quite liberal, totally different population. 😁
Good to hear.
Garrison, Thanks
A wise man, perhaps a geographer, noted long ago that Norwegian Lutherans were inexplicably attracted to the flat lands of extinct glacial lake bed known today as the Red River Valley. I was born and raised there and spent most Sunday mornings for the first 18 years of my life at Ringsaker Church, just a mile and 1/2 east of our farm. The church closed 22 years ago (you can read about it in Pat Brown’s article in The NY Times!), but until recently the remaining faithful kept it in good condition. Even kept the power on. But soon its coming down to be replaced by a small fiberglass replica.
Through the wonders of technology, I captured a reasonably good 3-D scan of the interior, upstairs and down, so the nostalgic or curious can tour. Since I am told that nothing ever really disappears from the internet, the old church has achieved something like immortality. I like to imagine that one day technology might a place children’s choir in front of a similarly virtual congregation to once again sing “Jeg er sa glad hver julekveld’’. Or perhaps Garrison could coax the assembled in singing a few hymns.
Our AI overlords may someday wonder what it was all about and why. Perhaps they will acquire a taste for cultured Lutefisk to virtually enjoy it with their fellow AI in the basement, as four generations of Norwegian Lutherans did once upon a time.
Here’s a link to the image of the upstairs. https://my.matterport.com/show/?m=ZK3BYgTARGi
And here’s the basement: https://my.matterport.com/show/?m=VbHdfZUszV5&sr=-1.54,1.12&ss=6
Lovely pictures. I don't need a picture of the Grace & Truth Gospel Hall of my childhood in Minneapolis because it is permanently fixed in my mind, the seats all facing the middle and where everyone sat.
In my minds eye I can still imagine where all the families sat from my vantage point in the third row to the right, near the piano. Everyone occupied the same pews every week. By my childhood most husbands sat with their families, but in a vestige of days past when men sat apart from wives and children, back behind me were a couple of rows occupied by the solitary old bulls with a few of the young bucks sitting behind them.
Interesting.. I didn't know the old Norwegians would've divided up like that. It seems rather severe. Where might this teaching have come from? Certainly not from Luther.
I can’t say for sure why the old settlers did that, but I recall when my father migrated from sitting with the old bulls towards the 3rd pew next to my mother. It may have just occurred naturally as my older siblings moved away, leaving more space in the third pew.
When you say "old bulls," do you mean old bachelors?
Most of them were married but sat apart from their herd on Sunday mornings.
My family immigrated to a small community in Eastern Washington, in 1907, about 4 years after the first settlers had founded a Lutheran church (Hauge Synod) for the Norwegian settlers there. (Services were in Norwegian until the mid-20's). My mother was born 2 years after my grandparents immigrated, and at that time, the men sat on one side of the church, with the women on the other. The story goes that my grandmother had her hands full with Mom and her brother (two years older), so she asked my grandfather to move across the aisle and help her. Others soon followed suit, and the tradition of gender-based seating was thankfully put to rest.
Interesting. I understand that our church continued to have Norwegian language services until the late 1930s.
This congregation got a new pastor in 1928, who was the first they had who was not born in Norway. He had attended St. Olaf College, where he took Norwegian, and then attended the Hauge Synod's Red Wing Seminary. One of the early members of the congregation told me that he gave his first sermon in Norwegian, and as the parishioners were exiting after the service, he asked one of the congregation's founders, "How was it?" He replied, "Well, I've heard better." That was the last sermon given in Norwegian in that congregation.
Of course many the descendants of the founders are strong advocates of "English only" in the US, despite the fact that their grandparents or great-grandparents spent 25 years in that congregation (and for many, at least 20 years in Minnesota before moving to Washington) without ever attending a church service that wasn't in Norwegian.
LOL, a young pastor should have known better than to ask that question!
It would be interesting to see how the decision was made to switch to English. I’m pretty sure the minutes from all those early congregational meetings are still archived somewhere. (My aunt was the Secretary for some 50 years!). Further research is merited!
Our ALC German Lutheran Church had one service in German until 1940, the year I was born. kept away several Scandinavians who lived nearby.
I grew up in the Red River Valley area too, Kim and still live here. Although I wasn't raised Lutheran, I "became" one when I married because my husband's family was Lutheran - the "strict" kind (Missouri Synod) and the church wouldn't marry us unless we were both members. The family church is still standing, and yes, I still remember the interior mostly by where within the various families - seems like there were about 5-6 main branches with various subsidiaries - sat.
If you immerse yourself in the 3D image by following the white circles, you can stand behind the pulpit and look out from the same perspective as Pastors Stomme, Carlson and Anderson, or as I had as I was obliged to read Luke 2:1-20 near the conclusion of the annual Sunday School Christmas program. In return for services rendered, I got a paper back containing an apple, some chocolate covered candies, peanuts and that odd, glass-hard ribbon candy. At the time it seemed like fair compensation.
My first wife’s family was from the same rural community but some how her parents ended up in a Missouri Synod church, which must have been unusually progressive because the pastor allowed us to marry in their church, but I remember them being very fussy about which songs could be sung at the wedding.
To think that we would have seen you at The O’Shaugnessy in tights performing The Nutcracker instead of PHC at The Fitz…
Mind-boggling!
Thank you for the laughter you gave me this morning. This Presbyterian has much in common with Lutherans, but I will try to avoid strangulation.....
Hilarity mixed with truth. When my parents moved us to Utah, we were found to be more conservative than the Mormons. Just as white, but much quieter.
Yeah, there’s a lot of shared culture growing up Lutheran. And you’re right: it was all white. I can’t imagine what they’d do to lure in non-whites. The music probably wouldn’t. The ministerial ruminations serving as sermons are not, I think, as impactful as a speaker who delves into the Bible, which most of the congregation never does. They’re good people, you know, but Pentecost to them is just another day on the annual calendar.
Not so, my Lutheran Congregations have always done up Pentecost quite royal.
Many truths and some humor but, being raised Lutheran in S.Dak & Minnesota, I never heard of strangulations.
As a life-long Lutheran, I have to agree with much of what you have written. The church I grew up in was very much as you described. However my Manhattan Lutheran church is far removed from your description. We do have black members. We have a gay pastor (our second). We use incense and are probably more "Roman" than the Catholic churches in Minnesota. And, for all I know, some of our members may well have been Episcopalians. As you say, God loves us all.